Me posting this meme with the full knowledge that it might make it to “All” and generate a shitshow of a comment section
Turn off your notifications mate. And don’t return to the scene of the crime
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This community is just popular enough to make it to /all, but not popular enough to drown out all the liberals/tankies that come here.
I phrased this horribly sorry
posting anti-tankie and anti-electoralism stuff in an Anarchism comm is one of the easiest way to generate infinite salt.
You’re my hero
Beautiful.
It did. Be proud
Congratulations?
This instance has made me realize that I am an anarchist. What a strange world… No regrets, thank you guys.
Hell yeah welcome to the struggle.
Just remember you don’t need to agree with every mainstream anarchist take to call yourself an anarchist. That’s the best part and one of many things that set this movement a cut above other leftist movements.
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We are happy to have you! 🥰 There is an anarchist book i highly recommend. You can read all of it or just pick sections you find interesting.
People ask “how can anarchism work? Don’t we need a boss?” Or “How would things be managed?”. And this book explains it very well :)
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works
It’s even available in audiobook form by audible anarchism
I just don’t think we’re meant to live in large numbers tbh.
You take the average opinion of 200 million people, apply it to everyone, and nobody will be happy with it.
Might be better if we gave people proper education and didnt encourage crab-bucketing so hard.
Same here I beliving in Anarchy more as a fight to concentration of power which concecuences are in full display in any news outlet. I’m also starting to feel kinda inclined to solarpunk.
I’d be an anarchist, but I think anarchism would only work if the world is far more connected than we are today. Anarchist communities developed organically because their environments are close to each other, facilitating cultural exchange and then evolving into a converging culture where people in the communities eventually “think alike”. It is like with Fremens in Dune. The entire ethnic group inhabit the entire planet, but their lines of communications are pretty reliable and fast, so in that sense the world of Fremen is “small”, allowing for an organic development of an anarchist culture by themselves.
Don’t even have to be an anarchist, just have to have at least partial hearing and/or vision.
Not even. I’m deaf and have terrible vision. In fact I was functionally blind for 8 months. And I can still see it!
Okay, have to have at least partial use of at least one sense.
So basically not be in a deep coma? Because I don’t think there is a disability where you losing touch hearing sight and smell.
I was going to suggest “be awake” and then realised I had accidentally re-invented the term “woke”
You’d have to get a bunch of ailments all at once. Deep coma is much simpler. Anyways, very obvious, most of us only, at most lack 1 or 2 senses. There’s no excuses for any of us to not “see” any of this.
You don’t even need a brain. Just a heart.
Tankies: handing out “genocide denial” bans for calling Ukraine a genocide.
You can simultaneously condemn the invasion of Ukraine and understand that false claims of genocide are harmful against people suffering genocide
Russia has been credibly accused off displacing local populations, seizing homes, mass torture and sexual violence against civilians and abduction of children in occupied territories. There are numerous examples of Russian politicians stating openly that they seek to exterminate Ukrainian identity.
The only argument that Russia is not engaging in large scale genocide is that Ukraine has prevented them from doing so by force.
None of the instances of what you’re claiming have been disproportionate compared to any modern conflict if you actually run the numbers, and if you compare to western-backed wars such as the invasion of Iraq, the numbers pale in comparison. War is horrifying, and you can heavily criticise the invasion of Ukraine, but calling it a genocide simply doesn’t hold when you look at the numbers.
Your comment being a good example of tankies denying Ukrainian genocide.
Putin kills Ukrainian civilians, not because of their religion or genetics or culture but to terrorise them into submission so that they encourage their military to give up so that he gets to plunder their land and resources.
This is very different to the universally accepted definition of genocide as applies to The Holocaust, Rwanda, Cambodia.
Ireland is trying to get the ICJ to broaden the UN definition of genocide to include both the Ukraine and Gaza tragedies.
Idiots have decided the new definition of genocide is simply “when one side kills a bunch of people on the other side” and get angry when you point out how infantile that is.
Infantile indeed. The popularity of Marvel/DC movies is symptomatic.
It is the age of hyperbole and polarization. As if something is not a tragedy worthy of attention unless you can paint it as the worst thing ever.
And the solutions imagined are total fantasy. Jews aint leaving the Levant, neither are the Arabs.
I watched a BBC documentary which blew my mind recently, leaving no party looking clean in the Middle East conflict. Neither ProPal nor Zionist philosophy comes into it. The reality is too messy for the partisan minds: HyperNormalization: A Different Experience of Reality.
Being in my 60’s it has been years since I saw something so challenging. Since this is an anarchist community this should appeal although it is not hopeful. More like an examination of organised Chaos.
Why do you bring up tankies? I’m not talking about any communist state, I’m talking about the proto-fascist, contemporary Russian republic, and explicitly said you can condemn it.
As expected, tankies came out in drove to whitewash Uyghur genocide 😂
There are far too many complaints and eyewitness to hide the grievances from the Uyghurs and CCP’s mistreatment of them.
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The imperial core didn’t forget so much as it gave up trying to manufacture consent after the UN rejected its allegations.
I’m once again asking liberals to join xiaohongshu and see the uighur culture being celebrated openly. Crossnational meetups with turkish people comparing turkish to ughric, large streetfestivals and so so many videos sharing the language, alphabet, cuisine, music, stories, attire all on a chinese app for chinese people. If nothing else learn about the culture that is supposedly being genocided from the uyghurs themselves.
Admittedly I don’t use 小红书, so I don’t know for sure, but it is the commercialised and commodified kind of culture?
Because I remember back when I was in China and visited the Tarim Basin it was quite harrowing. Hami and to a lesser extent Kashgar felt pretty hostile to Uighurs.
I, as a non-Han person, had to go in the non-Han line at the railway station. But unlike the non-white foreigners in the line, I was given a seat in the shade out of the 40+°C heat, and could use the water machine while I waited, unlike the locals.
I also saw all the Uighur girls at school with their shaved heads. People were scared, and the word for school, 学校, was treated with horror.
Maybe just an apatheid society, but the fact that sites of religious, cultural, and historical significance have been knocked down or turned into a tourist trap (Grand Mosque in Umruqi, the Mosque in Central Kashgar whose name I forgot), does seem the culture is being worn down.
Also saw the police beating people in Kashgar market to make sure they closed their shops at 7pm Beijing time, not 7pm Xinjiang time… Because all of China must be one time zone.
You’ll also see other ethnicities’ costumes, and parades on social media. But they’re not allowed to talk their languages at school and their festivals don’t get to exist outside of being for tourists, and they don’t get the leeway with laws than Han people do.
Ngl this mene unnecesarily divides people more than anything.
No socialists and “tankies” I know IRL don’t deny Uyghur genocide, general opinion is “Conflict between the Chinese government and Uyghur groups exist but US media exaggerates it for clickbait articles too.”
Similar with Israel. Democrats mostly say “I hate the Iran’s government for their legal system but still doesn’t justify civilians dying.” Nobody is congratulating Israel on “standing up for gay rights” or some shit.
Also ask the other group how they feel about global warming or education system sometime.
Chinese communists certainly deny the Uyghur genocide.
No socialists and “tankies” I know IRL don’t deny Uyghur genocide, general opinion is "Conflict between the Chinese government and Uyghur groups exist
MLs in lemmy absolutely deny anything bad is happening to Uyghurs.
This isn’t about IRL. This is about the disinformation that bad actors spread in online communities.
You also have a selection bias. You have friends with similar political views because you distance yourself from people you disagree with, either physically or just through avoiding “sensitive” topics. I’ve personally disconnected from some friends because they didn’t like it when I brought up Biden’s historic support of Israel. I still voted for him and Harris over Trump, but that wasn’t good enough for them.
No socialists and “tankies” I know IRL don’t deny Uyghur genocide, general opinion is “Conflict between the Chinese government and Uyghur groups exist but US media exaggerates it for clickbait articles too.”
Socialists in real life? Probably not. Tankies? Yes. They all do.
we need to get more people off reddit and twitter and onto lemmy
True, but I don’t see how that’s relevant to the post.
we are all stuck between a rock and hard place of reddit and twitter.
There is significant politicization of genocide declarations. They are all declared by fascist US empire and its slave controlled democracy colonies. There is very obvious extensive video evidence of extermination policies for Palestinians.
China responded to 2014 terrorist attacks with education and job creation programs. Xinxiang has had decent prosperity and population growth compared to other Chinese provinces despite a BDS policy from US controlled empire. The “technical genocide” accusation is based on a handful of Uyghur women with 4+ children who somehow all got to the UK, and claimed to now be sterile. Uyghurs had historically been exempt from Chinese one child policy.
Political demonism happens independently of facts. There are historical tensions in Xinxiang between Uyghur/muslim majority and relatively more prosperous Han minority, but Chinese policies are far more egalitarian than Alabama policies with much higher inequality. China has made the most humanist response to terrorism in history of civilization, even if it is not above criticism.
I would love a source on the Uyghurs that isn’t Adrain Zenz. He is the* Fash behind the “Victims of Communism Memorial Fund”.
All sources eventually point back to him in our Western Media, and its fucking disgusting.
(Edit: he is one of the Fash behind actual Nazi Propaganda Smuggling)
i think it is a great idea to build a “victims of communism” memorial so people can step outside to the victims of capitalism memorial.
Oh my. Thank you, I missed this story.
You’re welcome, I’m glad to share it.
I very much appreciate it being Al Jezeera, too. So the claims of US/Western/NATO bias/mouthpiece hold no weight.
Interestingly Xinjiang’s population growth since 2015 has been due to migration from the rest of China rather than birth rates, and the Uighur birth rate has fallen over this time period while the slackening of birth control legislation has led to slight increases (as compared to one child policy era) for the rest of non-Tibetan PRC.
The destruction of traditional life-styles and enforced
capitalistSocialist (with Chinese Characteriatics) modernity with SOEs taking control of traditionally common or village wide croplands and flocks, in the 80s led to a lot of the economic problems in the first place. It’s similar to enclosure in Europe, where now to not want to labour away in a factory for a wage and make your boss richer is extremism and also mad.That is to say, I do not think the PRC is actively killing large amounts of Uighurs. But there is a policy of cultural erasure, commodifiction of culture and heritage, and very tight, apartheid style control of the population.
The definition of genocide originally included cultural erasure, but it was vetoed by the U.S and some other countries because they would be guilty of genocide themselves.
People who think they’re well informed because they scroll through lots of memes are deciding elections now, and look where we are.
Well, believing in things is alienating, and the work required to gebuinely identify your self interest is frustrating and hard.
So what else are they supposed to do?
Read source material, don’t just consume self-confirming entertainment.
and the work required to genuinely identify your self interest is frustrating and hard.
Nope. Sorry.
Ah tankies
My Tribe is made up of people who refuse to have a Tribe.
Even the UN gave up on pretending the Uighur genocide is real, you’re pushing outdate propaganda
The UN, where the CCP has veto powers?
China doesn’t have veto power over the UN Human Rights Council, which voted to reject debating this any further, over 2½ years ago: https://xcancel.com/un_hrc/status/1578003299827171330
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ok done
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/asia/uyghurs-muslim-countries-china-intl
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2021/08/08/2003762216
So the story is that the US and our allies, who have spent decades villifying imprisoning and killing muslims, and who have repeatedly verifiably lied about similar human rights abuses to justify our foreign policy before, are the only ones who can be trusted to tell the truth about the conditions for muslims who just happen to be living in the country which is our single greatest global rival politically and economically, about whom we have an extremely obvious foreign policy motive for lying, but we’re definitely telling the truth this time and everyone else is lying? Every muslim majority nation on earth is apparently only supporting China because they’re either corrupt or too terrified to oppose them, despite the fact that the US has been completely unable to get similar results for Israel with our best efforts? And despite having the most advanced surveillance technology on earth, despite having satellites that can take high resolution pictures of any patch of dirt on earth and an unmatched intelligence network, the US has somehow been unable to obtain any incontrovertible physical evidence of this supposed genocide for years? And you believe that?
The US is not to be trusted and loves to manipulate the narrative. It’s good to fact check it, as the US does not have the Uighur people’s lived experience at heart.
Unfortunately, not does the PRC (and inviting journalists from friendly Muslim nations to talk to locals on camera to say everything is fine is one way to narrative shift and give a good media blitz). And while the PRC is probably not targeting Uighurs for organ harvesting any more than any other inmates in the prison system, it is a not a great situation for them there.
There are/were prison camps which provide “vocational training/reeducation”. The many non-Han people of the area are clearly second class citizens, and their cultural spaces have been commodified and turned into tourist spots.
Edit: Bitter Winter also has some stuff, but it’s bloggy and declared by China as “a hostile overseas media operation” … So your milage may vary?
Is this an actually good faith inquiry? Are you that deep in the kool aid?
Is this a good faith question? Or are you just looking for a convenient excuse to ignore my argument without having to actually address it? If you have an answer that makes sense, or see a problem with my logic or sources, then I’d love to hear it.
I’m just a bit incredulous that you actually think this argument would be convincing to anyone.
You don’t see any reason why dictators of Muslim countries might want to say nice things about China despite obvious abuses against the Uighurs?
I’ve got to log off but if no one has answered you more seriously later I’ll give it a go.
Any reasoning that applies to corrupt leaders of muslim countries in regard to China applies to those same leaders in regard to the US, if they can be bribed or blackmailed by one they can just as easily be bribed or blackmailed by the other, and in addition to any other methods of persuasion the US is far more able to credibly threaten their physical safety than China due to our global military presence and well documented history of successful regime change. If China can get them all to shut up and toe the line on the supposed Uighur genocide then why can’t the US get them to do the same for Palestine? There is no answer that makes sense, especially not for literally every single muslim majority nation on earth. The larger a conspiracy is the more likely it becomes that someone within it will talk, all it would take is a single government official of just one of their governments providing evidence of a payment or threat received from China about this to prove your hypothesis, but no such evidence exists. Either China has discovered some new method for keeping conspirators quiet that we can’t manage despite our resources, or there is no conspiracy.
Your incredulity also makes no sense. We’ve been caught lying to justify our foreign policy repeatedly before and enlisting all of the same major media outlets to cosign those lies that we have supporting these genocide accusations, despite years of diplomatic investigation and covert surveillance we have no substantiating physical evidence for a genocide in China or for the sort of sprawling organizational effort that would be necessary to compel the cooperation of so many separate governments, and we have an obvious motive to lie about all of the above. These are all verifiable facts and absolutely should be convincing to anyone who understands them.
Yeah I mean obviously lol I never said they’re not influenced by the US. The point is statements and policies by corrupt autocrats have no bearing the real situation on the ground. That’s not evidence, it’s politics. They will just say whatever is in their best interest regardless of the truth.
Your point about the US influence regarding Palestine is hilariously misinformed because they literally do that. That’s why none of these countries have done anything about Palestine. The only ones who have taken concrete actions are those that are basically already engaged in proxy wars with the west, such as Iran or the Houthis. Others like the Saudis, the new Syrian government and Egypt just want this issue to go away. That’s why Egypt is in the process of blocking the Gaza caravan as we speak. These autocrats don’t even care about their own people, let alone foreigners thousands of miles away.
Also, there are reasons the geopolitics favor the Chinese point of view on the Uighur issue. The CPC is obviously going to care a lot more about this issue than the US does because it’s a domestic security issue. For the US it’s just a way to tarnish China’s image, which of course they want to do, but it’s not a top priority. Furthermore, the ruling class is biased towards stability. They just want to keep exploiting people and living opulent lives in peace. They’re much more likely to try to ignore or diminish these problems than actually try to solve them because that risks pissing people off which could be dangerous for them. Finally, these countries also love to oppress their own people, so they’d just as soon everyone stop talking about human rights since that would obviously be to their benefit. Talking about prison camps in another country makes them more vulnerable to looking hypocritical when they engage in domestic repression.
And finally, there’s just abundant and overwhelming evidence of human rights abuses that don’t come from the US government, which yea, is obviously dishonest. The camps can be seen in satellite imagery, and the CPC acknowledges they exist but bizarrely claim that it’s good to force huge numbers of people into concentration camps. That’s such an unserious response that I don’t feel it’s necessary to respond to.
@fundmecfs this isn’t just a rhetorical question, I’d genuinely love to hear you explain this. Make it make sense for me!
Bruh, just bruh…
